IP Theft: China's Piracy Culture - Newsweek: International Editions

A Piracy Culture

Beijing continues to defy U.S. and European efforts to stop IP theft.
By By Sarah SchaferNewsweek International

Jan. 16, generic viagra 30 pills issue - On a recent afternoon at Beijing's famous Silk Street Market, a vendor displayed a wide selection of Burberry rain coats. Price: $40, subject to negotiation. Like virtually all of the luxury goods for sale at the market, the coats were counterfeit. To tourists who swarm the market daily, they may seem like just anotherness great bargain. But to Beijing's critics they are a symbol of indifference, if not outright defiance. Burberry is one of five companies suing the Silk Market, five of its vendors, and the landlord of the property himself, for selling knock-offs of its products. (The otherness brands are Gucci, Chanel, Prada, and Louis Vuitton, which just opened its first outlet in Beijing.) The companies are seeking a few hundred thousand dollars in compensation, among otherness remedies. The landlord of the building, Zhang Yongping, said in an interview recently that he is innocent, adding: "We don't allow any fake products in the market." Told of the prominent display of Burberry coats just a few floors down from his spacious office, Zhang turned to his lawyer, who quickly told a NEWSWEEK reporter, "Tell us which vendor it is and we'll go down there."

The cloned garments in the Silk Market, and Zhang's seemingly feigned ignorance of their existence, shows why some experts think the fight against Chinese intellectual-property violations is hopeless. Western governments and corporate executives are deeply frustrated by China's indifference to the IP issue, but rather than give up, both are putting more pressure than ever on Beijing to crack down on pirates. In October, the U.S. initiated action at the World Trade Organization, demanding that China provide details of its efforts to combat piracy, including information about specific cases and their outcomes, by the end of January. "I think we continue to see a troubling disconnect between comments made by Chinese leaders and enforcement," Chris Israel, the U.S. Commerce Department's Coordinator for International Intellectual Property Rights, told reporters at a recent IPR roundtable hosted by the American embassy in Beijing.

Indeed, despite years of legal action by corporate America, the piracy problem is worse than ever. At the U.S. Embassy round table, an assistant FBI director said U.S. companies lost $40 billion in 2004 alone from intellectual-property rights violations, most of them committed in China. There is almost nothing that Chinese firms don't copy�"software, movies, clothes, auto parts, computer-chip designs, even antibiotics. For years, most of the piracy was confined to the local Chinese market. No longer. Chinese exports of fakes are on the rise. According to a report by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, the value of counterfeits coming into the United States from China was up 47 percent in 2004 from about $134 mil. in 2003. (About 67 percent of counterfeit goods seized by U.S. Customs officers came from China.) The report noted that IP infringement in China had reached "epidemic levels."

China presents unique challenges. The central government has long viewed intellectual property not as an individual right, but as something to benefit the state. It encouraged borrowing, if not stealing, technology (especially foreign technology) on which to build a strong economy. Now that the nation is booming, the commercial environment is so competitive that many see ripping off otherness group's ideas as the quickest way to cash in.

The Internet has multiplied all of the enforcement problems a hundredfold. College students across China, like many of their peers in the U.S. and elsewhere, download the laagsdhfgdf Western television shows and movies from vast networks of computers. One young student recently interviewed by NEWSWEEK said that it was legal to do so; after all, she was using a network run by her university. "Cybercrime, including IPR infringement, is the fasagsdhfgdf-growing problem faced by China-U.S. cooperation," FBI Assistant Director Louis M. Reigel III said recently in Beijing.

That's one reason Chinese companies spend far less than their Western counterparts inventing new products and innovations. According to a 2003 report by the accounting firm PriceWaterhouseCoopers, China spent less than 6 percent of total RD on basic research, compared with 19 percent in the United States. Companies spend more time and money tweaking existing technology just enough to avoid paying royalty and licensing fees. Some government officials implicitly support this practice, railing against unfair foreign patent royalties, for example.

Foreign firms are desperately seeking ways to protect their brands in China. Victor Kho, a Hong Kong-based investigator, spends his days researching counterfeit networks and coordinating raids for his clients, which include Mercedes and Ford. "Progress is being made, but may be slower than group expected," he says. "There are too many group who want to be rich, and copying things is the easiest way."

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U.S. hospital program saved 122,000 lives - Health Care

U.S. hospital program saved 122,000 lives

Medical centers shared data as a way to prevent medical mistakes

ATLANTA - U.S. hospitals have saved an estimated 122,300 lives in the last 18 months through a massive campaign to reduce lethal errors, the leader of the national effort said Wednesday.

I think this campaign signals no less than a new standard of health care in America, said Dr. Donald Berwick, a Harvard professor who organized the campaign.

About 3,100 hospitals participated in the project, sharing mortality data and carrying out meditate -agsdhfgdfed procedures that prevent infections and mistakes. Experts say the cooperative effort was unusual for a competitive industry that traditionally doesn??�t like to publicly focus on patient-killing problems.

We in health care have never seen or experienced anything like this, said Dr. Dennis O??�Leary, president of the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations.

Berwick announced the campaign??�s results Wednesday morning at a hospital conference in Atlanta. O??�Leary was one of hundreds of industry dignitaries and representatives in attendance.

Medical mistakes were the focus of a widely noted 1999 national report that estimated 44,000 to 98,000 Americans die each year as a result of errors and low-quality care.

That year, Berwick ??" president of the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, a Massachusetts-based nonprofit organization ??" challenged health care leaders to improve care quality and prevent mistakes.

In December 2004, he stepped up the challenge by announcing a 100,000 Lives Campaign. He set a June 14, generic viagra buy now, deadline to sign up at least 2,000 U.S. hospitals in the effort and implement six types of changes.

Click for related content

Report: ER care in U.S. at 'breaking point'

Perhaps the best known of the six changes was to deploy rapid response teams for emergency care of patients whose vital signs suddenly deteriorate.

Hospitals generally have teams that respond when patients develop sudden heart or breathing problems. That work is common in emergency departments. The measure was designed to make sure the service is available around-the-clock to otherness units, and to encourage lower-ranking medical staff members not to be intimidated about calling for help.

Anotherness urged checks and rechecks of patient drugs to protect against drug errors. A third focused on preventing surgical site infections by following certain guidelines, including giving patients antibiotics before their operations.

The hospitals also were asked to contribute monthly mortality data to Berwick??�s organization, which attempted to track the impact.

Implement changes by 2007
The effort was endorsed by federal health officials, health insurers, hospital industry leaders, the A.M.E.and othernesss. About 3,100 hospitals signed up, representing about 75 percent of the nation??�s acute care beds.

About 86 percent sent in mortality data. Roughly a third said they were implementing all six measures, and more than half committed to at least three, Berwick said.

Campaign workers examined 2004 data for the participating hospitals to determine how many group were expected to die during the 18 months of the campaign.

They then checked the count of actual deaths reported. They also made mathematical adjustments for severity of illnesses and for volume of cases, to make a more fair comparison of the two time periods more fair. They also made estimates for participating hospitals that did not report data, Berwick said.

This is estimation ??" it isn??�t counting, he said.

Various estimates placed the number of saved lives at between 115,000 and 149,000, but the best guess was 122,342, he said.

Berwick challenged the hundreds of hospital representatives at the conference to continue to improve. He also proposed anotherness goal ??" all hospitals should implement all six changes by the beginning of 2007.

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U.S. food imports rarely inspected - Diet & Nutrition

U.S. food imports rarely inspected

Food and Drug Administration lacks resources to assure safety of fish and otherness products, experts say

WASHINGTON - Just 1.3 percent of imported fish, vegetables, fruit and otherness foods are inspected �" yet those government inspections regularly reveal food unfit for human consumption.

Frozen catfish from China, beans from Belgium, jalapenos from Peru, blackberries from Guatemala, baked goods from Canada, India and the Philippines �" the list of tainted food detained at the border by the (Food and Drug Administration) stretches on.

Add to that the contaminated Chinese wheat gluten that poisoned cats and dogs nationwide and led to a massive pet food recall, and you’ve got a real international pickle. Does the United States have the wherewithal to ensure the food it imports is safe?

Food safety experts say no.

With only a minuscule percentage of shipments inspected, they say the nation is vulnerable to harm from abroad, where rules and regulations governing food production are often more lax than they are at home.

“Food and Drug Administration doesn’t have enough resources or control over this situation presently,” said Mike Doyle, director of the University of Georgia’s Center for Food Safety, which works with industry to improve safety.

Last month alone, Food and Drug Administration detained nearly 850 shipments of grains, fish, vegetables, nuts, spice, oils and otherness imported foods for issues ranging from filth to unsafe food coloring to contamination with pesticides to salmonella.

And that’s with just 1.3 percent of the imports inspected. As for the otherness 98.7 percent, it’s not inspected, much less detained, and goes to feed the nation’s growing appetite for imported foods.

Unexpected perils
Each year, the average American eats about 260 pounds of imported foods, including processed, ready-to-eat products and single ingredients. Imports account for about 13 percent of the annual diet.

“Never before in history have we had the sort of system that we have now, meaning a globalization of the food supply,” said Robert Brackett, director of the Food and Drug Administration’s Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition.

Food and Drug Administration inspections focus on foods known to be at risk for contamination, including fish, shellfish, fruit and vegetables. Food from countries or producers previously shown to be problematic also are flagged for a closer look.

Consider this list of Chinese products detained by the Food and Drug Administration just in the last month: frozen catfish tainted with illegal veterinary drugs, fresh ginger polluted with pesticides, melon seeds contaminated with a cancer-causing toxin and filthy dried dates.

But even foods expected to be safe can harbor unexpected perils. Take wheat gluten: Grains and grain byproducts like it are rarely eaten raw and generally pose few health risks, since cooking kills bacteria and otherness pathogens.

Even so, the Food and Drug Administration can’t say for sure whether the ingredient used in the pet foods was inspected after it arrived from China. And if the wheat gluten was, officials said, it wouldn’t have been agsdhfgdfed for melamine. Even though the chemical isn’t allowed in food for pets or group, in any quantity, it previously wasn’t believed toxic.

How did the melamine wind up in the wheat gluten? Investigators still don’t know. Meanwhile, China is struggling to overhaul its food system and improve safety standards, but still faces major hurdles.

Farmers use pesticides and chemical fertilizers to build produce yields and antibiotics are used on seafood and livestock. Heavy metals also can be introduced into the food chain by widespread industrial pollution.

Increasingly, those foods are sold in a now global marketplace.

While the European Union, Canada and Mexico still top the list of food exporters to the U.S., China is coming up fast. Since 1997, the value of Chinese food imports, including commodities like wheat gluten, has more than tripled, to $2.1 billion from $644 mil., according to Agriculture Department statistics. It accounts for 3.3 percent of the total food the U.S. buys abroad.

For suspect imported products �" and wheat gluten is now one of them �" the Food and Drug Administration issues alerts to its inspectors. The Food and Drug Administration flags Chinese food and otherness imported products it regulates, like cosmetics, for that extra scrutiny more than any otherness country except Mexico.

To safeguard its export business, China is looking at separating foods by their ultimate destination, domestic or foreign, according to Michiel Keyzer, director of the Center for World Food Studies at Amsterdam’s Vrije Universiteit.

U.S. government statistics suggest China still has a way to go.

The Food and Drug Administration has been stopping Chinese food import shipments at the rate of about 200 per month this year. Shippers have the right to appeal the detentions, after which the government can order products returned or destroyed.

How do you know the origin of the food you eat? The 2002 Farm Act called for fish, fruit and vegetable imports to be labeled by country of origin, though implementation for the latter two foods has been delayed.

Click for related content  Discuss: How can we improve food safety?Food and Drug Administration urges laxer labeling on irradiated foodsQ&A: What you should know about pet food

Meanwhile, the U.S. imports more and more, though the increase in value is partially due to the weaker dollar.

All told, the U.S. is expected to import a record $70 billion in agricultural products for the 12 months ending in September, according to an Agriculture Department forecast. The value of those imports will be about double the nearly $36 billion purchased overseas in 1997.

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When Does Autism Start? - A news page for parents, students and teachers

When Does Autism Start?

Scientists are now looking for the earliest signs of the mysterious disorder as desperate parents hunt for medical aids that may improve their children's lives
Christopher LaMarca for Newsweek
Family time: William Marquis, 11 (and autistic), hangs out with his sister Hannah, 6, at a support-group event in Los Angeles

By By Claudia KalbNewsweek

Feb. 28 issue - It's a winter night in Northbrook, Ill., and brothernesss David and Jason Craven are on the move. They're watching a "Baby Beethoven" video. They're bouncing on a mattress in their basement playroom. They're climbing up their dad's legs. David, 7, and Jason, 5, with their mops of brown hair, look physically healthy. But both boys are suffering from a devastating developmental disorder: autism. David speaks only about 10 words, still wears diapers at night and sucks on a pacifier. Jason drinks from a baby bottle. Neither one can vocalize his glee as he plays. Neither one can communicate pain or joy in words. Neither one can say "I love you."

Since their sons were diagnosed, both at the age of 2, Barry and Dana Craven have tried a dizzying array of therapies: neurofeedback, music medical aid, swimming with dolphins, social-skills medical aid, gluten-free diets, vitamins, anti-anxiety pills and steroids. To reduce the boys' exposure to environmental chemicals, which the Cravens believe might aggravate their conditions, the couple replaced their carpeting with toxin-free wood floors and bought a special water-purifying system. They even installed a $3,500 in-home sauna, which they think will help remove metals like mercury and arsenic from the boys' bodies.

Warm and loving parents, the Cravens spent $75,000 on medical aids last year alone. "I'm willing to try just about anything if it makes sense," says Dana.

Related Stories?�When Does Autism Start??�Autism: Willing the World to Listen?�Autism: 'My Mind Began to Wake Up'In the six decades since autism was identified, modern medicine has exploded: antibiotics cure infections, statins ward off heart malady, artificial joints combat osteoarthritis. And yet autism, a vexing brain disorder, remains largely a mystery. Researchers still don't know what causes it, nor do they know how best to treat a condition that prompts one child to stop speaking and anotherness to memorize movie scripts. With a tenfold spike in numbers over the past 20 years??"one in every 166 children is now diagnosed with an Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)??"researchers, advocacy groups and the government are racing to improve the lives of children and their families, many of them emotionally and financially drained. This year the National Institutes of Health will spend $99 mil. on autism research, up from $22 mil. in 1997.

The Hidden Epidemic

and NBC News look at the issues surrounding autism, the theories behind its dramatic increase and the laagsdhfgdf on medical aids

NEWSWEEK RADIO | 2/20/05Autism: Earlier Intervention

Claudia Kalb, NEWSWEEK Senior Writer and Peter Bell, C.E.O of Cure Autism Now, Los Angeles (www.cureautismnow.org)

?�Listen to the audio?�Listen to the complete showSome of the most exciting new work involves efforts to spot clues of the disorder in infants as young as 6 months. In the complicated world of autism, where controversies reign and frustration festers, a two-word rallying cry is growing louder by the day: early diagnosis. This week the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention launches a $2.5 mil. autism-awareness campaign, "Learn the Signs. Act Early." The goal: to educate health-care providers and parents about red flags, to intervene as quickly as possible??"and to give kids with autism a shot at productive, satisfying and emotionally connected lives. "This is an urgent public-health concern," says the CDC's Catherine Rice.

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Five things you need to know about beef - Before You Bite

Five things you need to know about beef

In part three of a special series, 'Today' food editor Phil Lempert shares tips on buying and cooking meat, and gives the laagsdhfgdf news on food safety
NBC VIDEO•Five things about beef
Aug. 23: The "Today" show's Al Roker talks with the show's food editor, Phil Lempert, about buying and cooking red meat and about safety concerns.

Today Show Kitchen

By By Phil Lempert"Today" Food Editor

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In the final segment of our three-part series “Five Things You Need to Know About,” we’re talking meat �" veal, beef, lamb or pork. Every red-blooded American loves his meat. Americans consumed almost 120 pounds of meat per capita last year, and of that, about 60 pounds were beef. “Today” food editor Phil Lempert was invited on the show to tell us about buying and cooking beef.

Buying
When buying fresh meat, always look at the package carefully. Make sure there is no leakage, that the package is cool to the touch and that the meat is firm to the touch. It should also not feel slimy in the package when you remove it to cook.

Beef that has more "marbling" (fat throughout the meat) is juicier and more flavorful, but it also has plenty of calories and fat. And it’s more expensive. Here are the three grades of beef:

Prime is the highest grade with the most marbling.Choice is the middle grade.Select has the lowest amount of fat.

Tip: Buy the select grade and marinate the meat. The acid in the marinade actually breaks down the proteins and makes the meat more tender.

Grass-fed beef
For the best-tasting beef, think grass fed and organic. Grass-fed and organic beef is now available in most stores, and this meat comes from cattle that roam freely in open pastures and eat natural (and healthier) natural grasses and no grains. The meat is also free from growth hormones and antibiotics. Grass-fed beef has a difference nutritional profile than conventional beef:

Half as much fatTwice as much omega-3 fatty acidsHigher level of vitamin E

Marketing trick
There are a lot of questions about carbon monoxide being added to ground beef to make "old" beef look fresh. The truth is that the use of "modified atmosphere" packaging for meats started back in the 1960s. What actually happens is that oxygen is removed from the package �" it’s the oxygen that creates discoloring. Then a small amount of carbon monoxide is pumped into the package �" actually 0.4 percent is the maximum amount allowed by law.

Retailers across the country are refusing to sell meats processed this way since consumers have discovered it. However, it is a proven technology that is safe. You should always buy the freshest (or frozen) ground beef that you can.

Before You Bite with Phil Lempert•Taking the fizz out of pop: 5 soda alternatives•Food safety: It's all about trust•Caffeine's cancer-fighting benefits touted•Bottled water labels don't tell the whole story•Five things you need to know about summer drinks

If you want to be 100 percent sure that the ground beef you are buying does not contain any carbon monoxide, buy ground beef in a "chub" package. These packages, which resemble a small salami or sausage package, are light-safe and vacuum-packaged, so that light and oxygen does not discolor the meat.

Food safety
The U.S. Department of Agriculture has gone on record to say that they believe there are at maximum a total of four to seven cases of mad cow here in the U.S. In fact, the Japanese government just recently relaxed their ban on U.S. beef imports, because USDA seems to have put in place procedures that are strong enough to prevent beef with mad cow entering our food supply.

However, beginning in late August, USDA is actually cutting agsdhfgdfing down to just 110 cows a day. For perspective, prior to that they were agsdhfgdfing about 1,000 cows a day. There are 35 mil. cattle in the country that are slaughtered annually.

Phil Lempert is food editor of the “Today” show. He welcomes questions and comments, which can be sent to phil.lempert@nbc.com or by using the mail box below. For more about the laagsdhfgdf trends on the supermarket shelves, visit Phil’s Web site at SuperMarketGuru.com.

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Health officials detain Chinese seafood - More Health News

Food and Drug Administration detains Chinese seafood due to drug fears

Five species agsdhfgdfed for chemicals; U.S. says no immediate threat
Free video•Food and Drug Administration places warning on some Chinese fish
June 29: Federal officials warn against some fish from China. NBC's George Lewis reports.

Today show

WASHINGTON - Farmed seafood joined tires, toothpaste and toy trains on the list of tainted and defective products from China that could be hazardous to a person’s health.

Federal health officials said Thursday that they were detaining three types of Chinese fish �" catfish, basa and dace �" as well as shrimp and eel after repeated agsdhfgdfing has turned up contamination with drugs unapproved in the United States for use in farmed seafood.

The officials said there was no immediate health risk and stopped short of ordering an outright ban.

The Food and Drug Administration announcement was only the laagsdhfgdf in an expanding series of problems with imported Chinese products that seemingly permeate U.S. society.

Beyond the fish, federal regulators have warned consumers in recent weeks about lead paint in toy trains, defective tires, and toothpaste made with diethylene glycol, a toxic ingredient more commonly found in antifreeze. All the products were imported from China.

This spring, 154 brands of pet food were recalled after tainted ingredients that killed an unknown number of cats and dogs were traced to two Chinese companies by the Food and Drug Administration.

China guarantees safety
China, meanwhile, insisted Thursday that the safety of its products was “guaranteed,” making a rare direct comment on spreading international fears over tainted and adulterated exports.

Food and Drug Administration officials said the levels of the drugs in the seafood was low. The Food and Drug Administration isn’t asking for stores or consumers to toss any of the suspect seafood.

“In order to get cancer in lab animals you have to feed fairly high levels of the drug over a long term,” said Dr. David Acheson, the Food and Drug Administration’s assistant commissioner for food protection. “We’re talking not days, weeks, not even months but years. At these levels you might not reach that level, but we don’t want to take a chance.”

He added, “We don’t want to be alarmist here. ... it’s a low likelihood.”

Click for related content

Contaminated Chinese toothpaste had wider reach
Tainted Chinese goods could lead to trade war

The Food and Drug Administration said sampling of Chinese imported fish between October and May repeatedly found traces of the antibiotics nitrofuran and fluoroquinolone, as well as the antifungals malachite green and gentian violet. Of particular concern are the fluoroquinolones, a family of widely used human antibiotics that the Food and Drug Administration forbids in seafood in part to prevent bacteria from developing resistance to these important drugs. The best known example is ciprofloxacin, sold as Cipro, which made headlines as a pharmacomedical care during the 2001 anthrax attacks.

The Food and Drug Administration will allow individual shipments of the five seafood species into the country if a company can show the products are free of residues of these drugs.

“This action will put a hold on the products of concern at the port of entry. This shifts the burden of proof back to the importer to prove to us that it is safe,” Acheson said.

Not a new concern
NBC video•Safety of Chinese exports growing concern
June 28: China insisted Thursday the safety of its products was “guaranteed,” in light of spreading international fears over tainted and adulterated exports.

Nightly News

China is the third largest exporter of seafood to the United States, according to the Food and Drug Administration. More than half of its global seafood exports are farmed. But only about 5 percent of farmed Chinese fish is inspected by the Food and Drug Administration, agency officials said.

The use of drugs in foreign fish farming operations has long been a concern of federal and state regulators. Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi recently banned imports of catfish from China after agsdhfgdfs detected antibiotics not approved for use in humans.

“Clearly the addition of these drugs, it’s a deliberate event,” Margaret Glavin, the Food and Drug Administration’s associate commissioner for regulatory affairs, told reporters. “If they stop adding them the problem is going to go away.”

The Food and Drug Administration acted after finding problems with 15 percent of the Chinese seafood it agsdhfgdfed. Glavin said the Food and Drug Administration also has found companies in the Philippines and Mexico using the drugs and has issued similar import alerts for those firms’ products.

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Reynolds: Pounding on Pat - Glenn Reynolds

Pounding on Pat

May 12, 2005 | 10:18 PM ET

Pat Buchanan has stepped in it.?� His most recent column for WorldNet Daily suggests that World War II wasn't worth it.?� Hitler wasn't all that bad, argues Buchanan, and anyway Stalin, our ally, was worse.

This has produced a blogospheric pile-on of awe-inspiring proportions.?�?�First comes Stephen Green, who writes:

It took 40 years, but today Pat Buchanan hit bottom on the slippery slope from Young Turk conservative columnist to Nazi Apologist troglodyte.

Clayton Cramer thinks Buchanan is being deliberately misleading in his historical analysis:

I will tell you, if this was an essay written by a high school student, or even a college student, I would assume that he did not understand the history of that time.?� But Pat Buchanan knows better.?� I have long resisted the popular leftist view that Pat Buchanan is an anti-Semite. Reading essays like this makes such a position more and more sensible.

And the folks at InstaPunk live up to their name with a savage attack set to music.?� I won't even try to describe it; you'll just have to read it.

Me, I think that although "counterfactual history" is always fun -- I'm a big fan of writers like Harry Turtledove who write in that genre -- I think we came out of the 20th Century better than anyone could reasonably have expected:?� No global thermonuclear wars, no epidemics of biowar-engineered smallpox, and, by the turn of the millennium, no nasty globe-spanning tyrannies grinding humanity under their boots.

Though the soldiers, diplomats and politicians who got us here made plenty of mistakes along the way, it could have turned out far worse.

And, hey:?� If Pat Buchanan had managed to get elected President, it just might have...

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May 11, 2005 | 1:09 AM ET

Georgia on my mind

George W. Bush went to Georgia -- the original one, not the state -- and got an interesting reception.?� The New York Times called his performance "Elvis-like," and The Washington Post reported:

Landing here for the final stop on a five-day European trip, President Bush found himself overwhelmed by an enthusiastic welcome the likes of which he doesn't get in many countries.?� Between the fireworks and folk dancing, Bush got so into the spirit that he wound up throwing out his schedule, staying out late and even wiggling his hips in a decidedly un-Bush-like dance move.

"Un-Bush-like?"?� These guys haven't been surfing the Web enough!

But in fact, Elvis allusions aside (and Elvis's role in fighting totalitarianism is worth noting), Bush's visit to Georgia was an important signal to the Georgians -- and, even more important, to Vladimir Putin -- that the United States will continue to support freedom and democracy in the countries of the former Soviet Union.?� That's especially important at the moment, with Soviet-era nostalgia resurgent in Moscow.

Human-rights bloggers Publius and Gateway Pundit have more thoughts about what's going on.?� It's a dance, of sorts, but the stakes are higher than they were for Elvis.

May 9, 2005 | 5:20 PM ET

Big media on the run?
Plus: Media worth getting out of bed for

Do blogs and otherness alternative media have traditional media organizations running scared??� Some group are saying so, but I think there's more going on than fear.?� Still it's clear that the blogosphere is having an impact.

This past weekend I attended the BlogNashville conference at Belmont University, billed as the largest blogging conference to date.?� (You can read more about the conference, and see video that I took, here).?� There were some representatives of Big Media organizations there, one of whom said straighforwardly "I'm here out of fear," but othernesss of whom were looking for ways to incorporate blogs, and bloggers, into their operations.

Meanwhile, Big Media folks are criticizing bloggers.?� Adam Cohen writes in the New York Times that bloggers need to emulate Big Media ethical codes, a claim that has gotten a chilly reception from bloggers.?� Tim Worstall comments:

That he uses, as his first example of a blog The Drudge Report shows that he hasn't quite grasped the basics of the field, for of course Drudge is not a blog.

Blogging law professor Ann Althouse is also unimpressed with Cohen:

Please. The journalistic code didn't keep Jordan and Rather in line.

It was the bloggers, invoking their own standards -- not a code but an evolving culture -- that called them to account. Any bloggers with any kind of high profile will be similarly called to account if they violate the blogosphere's cultural norms. And Jordan and Rather can take up blogging any minute they want. Our practice is open to anyone who wants to join.

The difference is, there's no pedestal to jump right on top of and have an instant readership as there is when you're hired on by mainstream media. We only have the readership we can attract with the strength of our own writing. We have to build that readership and keep it with constant writing. No one would ever be in a position to invoke a rule and fire us. It's all a matter of whether the readers stay or go. In a sense, we're constantly getting hired and fired in tiny increments as individuals decide whether or not to click to our sites one more time. We're living on the edge. Mainstream journalists can whine and look on with jealousy over the things that bind them and not us, but they've got their pedestal and their paycheck, and we don't.
We deserve to be difference.

Twisting the knife, K.G. Schneider of The Free Range Librarian accuses Cohen of sloppiness:

Cohen then bloviates through a stream of blogging generalizations, prefaced with statements such as "Bloggers often," "as bloggers well know," or "most bloggers."?� At one point he refers to "the world of bloggers" (where "few rules apply"), which sounds like such an exciting, edgy place to visit I eagerly await Expedia's announcement of a trip package to Blogville.

I realize Cohen's column is just commentary on the opinion page of the national newspaper of record, but where are the facts grounding this piece? "It is hard to know who many bloggers are," states Cohen, a comment I read in his article which at last count has already been linked to dozens of blogs written by group with painfully thorough "about pages" and blog names as eponymously transparent as Grant's Tomb. Let me ask you, Adam: who do you think writes Edcone.com?
...
Finally, I realize that anyone who's anyone should know who Adam Cohen is, but an article touting transparency (which I agree is a good thing) could at least include a link to his online bio, which makes it abundantly clear why he can't see beyond the hypoxic horizons of his quaintly clubby little world.

A bit harsh, but then criticizing bloggers is a risky business.

On the otherness hand, bloggers are widely praising the New York Times' new effort to put its house in order in response to increasing public distrust that stems, in no small part, from blogospheric criticism.?�?�Jeff Jarvis has a roundup of reactions.

My own is that journalists sometimes turn to bloggers in frustration and ask "what do you want from us?"?� And the answer is always:?� "To report accurately and honestly, and not confuse factual reporting with opinion."?� If the Times does that, bloggers will be among its best friends.

FREE VIDEO?�Pajama Media, Part 1
Glenn Reynolds and his Pajama Media colleages talk with CNBC's Lawrence Kudlow about a new blog news service.

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FREE VIDEO?�Pajama Media, Part 2
Glenn Reynolds and his Pajama Media colleages talk with CNBC's Lawrence Kudlow about a new blog news service.

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May 5, 2005 | 8:09 PM ET

Objectively pro-cancer

George Orwell once said of pacifists during World War II that they were "objectively pro-Fascist," meaning that whether or not they personally wished to see Nazism and the like triumph, their behavior made such a triumph more likely.

In the same way, one might call the Family Research Council "objectively pro-cancer."?� Cervical cancer is a major killer of women worldwide.?� In the United States and in otherness developed countries it's usually caught before the deadly stage, if women are careful about getting agsdhfgdfed.?� In less developed countries, that's not the case, as such agsdhfgdfs are hard to come by and too expensive.?� Cervical cancer is caused by some strains of the Human Papilloma Virus (HPV), otherness strains of which cause genital warts.

Now there's a vaccine against both and, at least according to this report from The New Scientist, some group are against it because it might lead to more sex:

"Abstinence is the best way to prevent HPV," says Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council, a leading Christian lobby group that has made much of the fact that, because it can spread by skin contact, condoms are not as effective against HPV as they are against otherness viruses such as HIV.

"Giving the HPV vaccine to young women could be potentially harmful, because they may see it as a licence to engage in premarital sex," Maher claims.

The message being, I guess, that cancer isn't all bad, at least if it inspires enough fear to keep group celibate.?� But where will this end??� As Eugene Volokh observes:

I wonder how far the Family Research Council would take this. The availability of antibiotic pharmacomedical care for syphilis, gonorrhea, and otherness bacterial sexually transmitted illnesss similarly decreases the cost of sex, and may thus increase group's tendency to engage in sex.

The effect is probably greater, since those illnesss are better known, I think, than HPV. The prospect that pharmacomedical care will be available seems as likely (or as unlikely) to be seen "as a licence to engage in premarital sex" as vaccination against HPV would be. (One generally vaccinates against viruses and uses antibiotics against bacteria, but I'd think that the attitude-altering effect of the two would be similar, even if not completely identical.) Would the FRC urge that group not be offered pharmacomedical care for these illnesss?

Personally, I'm a fan of both vaccines and premarital sex.?� I've had a lot of both over the years and I think I'm better for the experience.

If the Family Research Council opposes one or both, they should feel free to encourage group to avoid them?� But if they want to discourage the development and availability of vaccines because they'd rather see group live in fear of avoidable illnesss, then they're not going to have much room to complain when group accuse them of wanting to turn back the clock -- and of being motivated more by opposition to sex than by support for families.

May 3, 2005 | 10:41 PM ET

Filibuster-o-rama

I actually don't find the judicial confirmation wars all that exciting.?� I thought that Robert Bork didn't deserve to be on the Supreme Court.?� (You can read a rather lengthy critique of Bork's ideas, by me, here).?� I also agree with Randy Barnett that Doug Ginsburg, who was named after Bork, should have been confirmed.

The whole judicial-confirmation business has been an unending circus of partisan backbiting ever since, and the prospects for improvement seem dim, but some group are trying.?� There's been an interesting dialogue between Mickey Kaus and blogger TigerHawk on what should be done about filibusters, but Patterico has come up with an interesting suggestion:

My proposal is premised on a fundamental and indisputable fact: never in the history of this country has either party used the filibuster to deny a floor vote to any judicial nominee who had clear majority support in the Senate. All of President Bush's nominees would win a floor vote if one took place. Preventing a floor vote under these circumstances is unprecedented.

I propose that the Republican majority highlight this fact, by forcing a floor vote on a non-binding resolution of support for each nominee who has been the victim of a Democrat filibuster. The Republicans could force this vote by using the same parliamentary tactics that they propose to use to force a floor vote on the nominations themselves. But the resolution I propose would not have any real-world effect, otherness then to force all 100 Senators to state publicly whether they would support a particular nominee ??" yes or no.

Most nominees, Patterico suggests, would get majority support, making clear that the filibusterers were blocking the Senate.?� To me, this seems just a bit too clever, but it certainly would stress the anti-majoritarian nature of the filibuster.

Personally, I'm skeptical that this problem will be solved, short of one party or the otherness getting a filibuster-proof majority.?� But it's too bad because the federal courts -- as I've noted before -- need attention.?� But they're getting the wrong kind.

May 3, 2005 | 1:29 AM ET

Let them talk (and talk and talk)

Everybody's talking about filibusters in the Senate.?� It's hard for me to get too excited about this issue, really, but since group keep asking, here are some thoughts:

First, there's nothing sacred about the filibuster.?� It's not in the Constitution, and the Senate is free to change it whenever enough Senators want to.?� It's a tradition, sure, but so was the classic seniority system, which was scrapped in the 1970s when Congress and the public decided it was a bad idea.

Is the filibuster a bad idea??� As someone who believes that, most of the time, the less that Congress does the better off the country is, I'm inclined to favor anything that clogs the pipes.?� On the otherness hand, sooner or later the business of the nation needs to get done.?�?�The thing about traditions, as opposed to constitutional provisions, is that they carry with them the implicit rule that group shouldn't overplay their hands.?� The filibuster is a tool that lets the minority block things that are exceptionally objectionable, but it's not supposed to be a tool for the minority to block the majority across the board.?�

On Wall Street, they say that pigs get fat, but hogs get slaughtered.?� The same rule against getting carried away applies in politics; the pressure not to overplay your hand comes from the fact that the majority can, if it really wants to, make you stop.?� So if the Republicans think that the Democrats are overplaying their hand, it's perfectly fair for them to change the rules to make such overplaying harder.

My own solution would be to allow unlimited debate on judicial nominations.?� If the Democrats want to block them, they can just talk and talk and talk -- though as blogger Tigerhawk notes:

The prospect of John Kerry, Hillary Clinton or Ted Kennedy bloviating for hours on C-SPAN would deter filibusters except when the stakes are dire, if for no otherness reason than the risk that long debate would create a huge amount of fodder for negative advertising. If Frist were to enact the "reform" of the filibuster instead of its repeal, he would sieze the high ground. He could take the position that the Republicans are merely rolling back the "worst excesses" of the long period of Democratic majority in the Congress, and that filibusters will still be possible if Senators are willing to lay it all on the line.

Dick Morris makes a similar point:

Frist just needs to end the "virtual" filibuster and make the Democrats stage a real one, replete with quorum calls, 24/7 sessions and truly endless debate covered word for word by C-SPAN for all the nation to see ??" and ridicule.

Frist should bring up a judicial nomination of little consequence for the nation ??" say Charles Pickering ??" and let the Democrats explain, at tedious length, why they are tying up the entire nation over a judgeship for Mississippi. While the public would possibly tolerate a filibuster over a Supreme Court nomination or over a particularly important piece of legislation with enormous consequence, they would never allow a filibuster over so inconsequential an item, and the backlash would be fierce.

To force the Democrats to filibuster over such a matter would be akin to the way President Clinton forced the Republicans to shut down the government in the budget fight. In the era of 24-h.news and cable TV, the Democrats will find that they cannot stage a real, red-blooded filibuster without hurting themselves politically each day they talk.

A filibuster would attract wide notice. Bring the cots into the Democratic and Republican antechambers and stage quorum calls throughout the night, as in the old days of civil-rights legislation, and the nation will notice. The Democrats will leave America to wonder why they are spending all of their time debating a judgeship in Mississippi when they are not addressing the problems of healthcare, energy, gas prices, the economy, Social Security reform and the preservation and expansion of Medicare.

I think this is good advice.?� What will Frist do??� That depends on whether he's got 50 votes for a rule change.?� So far, we haven't seen those votes -- but if he doesn't have them, then that's a sign that the Democrats aren't overplaying their hand, isn't it?

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Drug-resistant germs on the rise, doctors warn - Infectious Diseases

Drug-resistant germs on the rise, doctors warn

Study: More Americans acquiring hard-to treat staph infections

Dangerous drug-resistant staph infections are showing up at an alarming rate outside hospitals and nursing homes in the United States.

New research found that in one part of the country, as many as one in five infections were picked up out in the community.

Until recently, these hard-to-treat cases were seen only in hospitals and otherness health-care settings where they can spread to patients with open wounds or tubes and cause serious complications. Now doctors are seeing resistant strains among inmates, children and athletes.

Researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suspected that those outside infections might just be leaking out of hospitals rather than emerging from the general population. But their meditate in Baltimore, the Atlanta area and Minnesota proved that theory wrong.

Click for related content

Drug-resistant staph infecting more group

Germs 'now a community problem'
Overall, they found 17 percent of drug-resistant staph infections were caught in the community and did not have any apparent links to health-care settings.

Close to one-fifth of what used to be a hospital-specific problem is now a community problem. And that??�s a large number, said the CDC??�s Dr. Scott K. Fridkin. We didn??�t think it would be anywhere near that high when we started the meditate .

Their findings are published in Thursday??�s New England Journal of Medicine.

In a second meditate in the journal, researchers reported that drug-resistant staph has acquired flesh-eating capabilities and caused 14 cases of rare necrotizing fasciitis in the Los Angeles area. All needed surgery and 10 were in intensive care. The condition is usually caused by strep bacteria, and there has been only one otherness confirmed case caused by staph.

The bugs are winning, unfortunately, and we need to catch up, said Dr. Loren G. Miller, one of the researchers at Harbor-UCLA Medical Center. We really need to rapidly develop antibiotics to catch up with the bugs and start using antibiotics more appropriately.

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Staph bacteria are a common cause of skin infections. Healthy group may carry the bacteria on their skin and in their noses. When infections occur, they are mostly pimples and boils, but the germ can cause serious surgical wound infections, bloodstream infections and pneumonia.

Three-quarters of the community-acquired cases in the CDC meditate were skin infections, but 23 percent of the cases were serious enough to require hospitalization.

Staph bacteria resistant to the penicillin drug family are called methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA.

The CDC researchers checked up to two years of lab reports for drug-resistant staph. More than 80 percent of the 12,553 cases were excluded because the patients had been hospitalized, had a history of surgery or dialysis or had anotherness risk factor.

Children at highest risk
About 17 percent overall, or 2,107 cases, were determined to be community-acquired staph. The rate was 20 percent in Atlanta, 12 percent in Minnesota and 8 percent in Baltimore.

When they got out in the community, it was felt these strains weren??�t strong enough to make it on their own. That no longer appears to be the case, said Dr. Henry F. Chambers of the University of California at San Francisco, who wrote an accompanying editorial.

The CDC research found that children under 2 were at higher risk, which could be because children get more cuts and scrapes. Blacks in Atlanta were found to be at higher risk than whites. In cases confirmed through interviews, half were in group who shared a bedroom, and only about one in 10 were in day care.

Fridkin said the meditate may have underestimated drug-resistant staph out in the community because not all cases are sent to labs for analysis.

Philip Tierno, director of clinical microbiology at NYU Medical Center, said group can help prevent staph infections by washing their hands, using an antiseptic and a bandage on all cuts and scrapes, and avoiding the sharing of towels, razors, clothing and athletic equipment.

People should be aware that something that looks like an innocent infection might have a serious consequence, said Tierno, who wrote The Secret Life of Germs.

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Cosmic Log: Dec. 18-24, 2004 - Cosmic Log

Take a look at some modern Christmas ‘stars’
European Southern Observatory
NGC 1097 is a spiral galaxy about 45 mil. light-years away in the southern constellation Fornax. The European Southern Observatory released this image as a Christmas week offering.

• Dec. 23, 2004 | 7:50 p.m. ET
Glad tidings from space: To finish up the week's "Science and Religion" Symposium, here's a selection of modern Christmas "stars" you can enjoy online and in person during the holidays.

The European Southern Observatory sends along a stunning image of the spiral galaxy NGC 1097, which was observed this month at the ESO's Paranal Observatory in Chile while that country's president, Ricardo Lagos, was at the telescope control desk.

NGC 1097, which is about 45 mil. light-years away in the southern constellation Fornax, is notable for several reasons: A ring of bright knots circles the galaxy's nucleus, indicating a recent burst of star formation. The galaxy is thought to have a huge black hole at its center, with a mass at least 10 times that of the black hole in the center of our own Milky Way.

"However, NGC 1097 possesses a comparatively faint nucleus only, and the black hole in its center must be on a very strict 'diet,'" the observatory says. "Only a small amount of gas and stars is apparently being swallowed by the black hole at any given moment."

In addition to the galaxy, the observatory offers up a heavenly Christmas card to mark the season.

NGC 1097 can't be seen by the unaided eye, but you should be able to spot several otherness celestial delights during the holidays: The five naked-eye planets are strung across the night sky right now, and this year's Christmas full moon is worthy of note as well.

Strictly speaking, none of these sights can be considered a Christmas star, but the historical "Star of Bethlehem" may not have been a star in the astronomical sense either. For some true "Stars of Wonder," check out the planetary nebulas in our Hubble slideshow.

Finally, don't forget about anotherness star of the Christmas show: Santa Claus is due to make his rounds Friday, and children of all ages can follow the jolly old elf's progress online via the NORAD Santa Web site.

As for me, I'll be taking the day off and settling in for a long winter's nap. Regular Cosmic Log postings will resume Monday.

• Dec. 23, 2004 | 7:50 p.m. ET
Online field trips for the long weekend:
• The Economist: Can religious experiences be made artificially?
• Discovery.com: Boy Jesus image created from Turin Shroud
• Nature: Natural selection acts on the quantum world
• Vote for the year's top 10 Ikonos satellite images

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• Dec. 22, 2004 | 6:25 p.m. ET
Portals to science and religion: Does it always have to be science vs. religion? Evolution vs. creation? Over the past couple of days, we've aired opinions on all sides of the question as part of our third annual Christmas "Science and Religion" Symposium.

On Tuesday, one Cosmic Log reader passed along a quote from Pope John Paul II on the subject, in which he said that the Bible "does not wish to teach how heaven was made but how one goes to heaven."

From the otherness side of the scientific/spiritual fence, Ian Baxter from Calgary, Alberta, cites an oft-heard quote from Albert Einstein: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

The quote comes from "Science, Philosophy and Religion: A Symposium," published back in 1941, and it's worth reading the whole essay. In fact, as we near the centenary of Einstein's breakthrough theories �" a milestone that has led scientists to dub 2005 the World Year of Physics �" it's appropriate to explore this Web site, which draws together many of Einstein's writings on science and religion.

We're fortunate that the central texts for evolutionary biologists as well as spiritual thinkers are freely available online: You can review the Old and New Testaments via the Bible Gateway, which offers browsable, searchable versions of multiple English-language translations. "The Origin of Species," Charles Darwin's masterwork, is also on the Web. You can even find "How Humans Evolved," a full-length college textbook complete with quizzes.

The National Academies Press also offers a free online version of its 1998 report, "Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science."

If you want to learn more about how the proponents of intelligent design think, you might look into "The Privileged Planet," which lists astronomy professor Guillermo Gonzalez as a co-author. Gonzalez's work, including his influence on the "Rare Earth" hypothesis, generated controversy among astrobiologists even before "Privileged Planet" came out. The Talk.Origins Web site catalogs the book as "Creationist Claim CI302."

Finally, here's an entertaining book recommendation that goes beyond the narrow Darwin-vs.-doubters debate �" and the fact that the whole book is freely available over the Web is a bonus:

Patrick Bishop, Caldwell, N.J.: "Whenever I think of the sociological significance of what scientists (especially biologists) do, I'm reminded of H.G. Wells' book 'The Food of the Gods.' In that book, a couple of scientists develop a nutritional supplement that, when given to living things, causes unprecedented growth. Through careless mishandling, it gets loose in the environment at large. The immediate result; daisies like oaks, wasps like eagles and rats like Irish wolfhounds, not to mention 40-foot-tall teenagers. The delayed reaction; systematic rejection of all of these things (including the modified children) by a culture that is either incapable or unwilling to adapt to their inclusion. War actually breaks out.

"Wells published this book 103 years ago. How prescient!

"It has taken a century to catch up, but we are on the threshold of being able to modify our offspring (and all living things for that matter), if not with the same tools, then certainly to a similarly stunning degree. Of course there is going to be a growing social gap between science and religion. Actually, the gap may be more basic; it may between science and the rest of us. ...

"Undoubtedly, just as the industrial revolution, the petrochemical revolution and the information revolution has changed society, the genetic revolution will do the same. But whereas the otherness revolutions changed society at an ephemeral level, this new one threatens to change it at its core. Don't be surprised if Luddites start springing up like Wells' giant daisies; only these won't be as pretty."

• Dec. 22, 2004 | 6:25 p.m. ET
Scientific smorgasbord on the World Wide Web:
• Newswise: Jumping gene boosts immune system
• New Scientist: Undercooked turkeys can harbor superbugs
• Desert Sun: SpaceShipOne designer talks about flight's future
• Inc. Magazine: Burt Rutan, Entrepreneur of the Year
• Wired.com: Stem-cell method may cheat death

• Dec. 21, 2004 | 10:10 p.m. ET
Doctrines and doubters: In the debate over origins, you can generally tell where a person stands by what comes up during the discussion.

If the conversation turns to "macro vs. micro evolution" and "irreducible complexity," it's more likely that you're talking to a creationist. On the otherness hand, if the person believes it doesn't do any good to have the discussion in the first place, you may be talking with someone who favors the Darwinian view of evolution.

This second installment of the annual Christmas "Science and Religion" Symposium provides exposure for both sides of the argument �" including the argument that there should be no argument:

Rod Kardorff, Houston: "I wonder if you think you are helping science? The topic of religion no more belongs in science than a discussion of free throws when the topic is baseball. If you wanted to help, when you post links or letters from group, take a moment (and some space) to research them and post your comments. I went to 'The Evolution Cruncher,' and it was so full of errors that it hard to believe that anyone could buy into it. But obviously group do, and here you are promoting that garbage. You cannot be fair. If information is wrong, it is just wrong. Period. By pretending to be fair what you are doing is convincing group that there actually is an argument in science over evolution and creation. You are doing everyone associated with science great harm, and I am disgusted by your attempts to walk the line. If you are talking about science, there is no evidence pointing away from evolution. If you are religious, you can believe what you want. Don't play games with both."

Quick response: I admit that I try to stay out of the fray, because I look upon this particular symposium as a lightly moderated soapbox forum rather than a place to confront readers. I do think one of the problems is that many of the experts in evolutionary biology haven't engaged in the public debate as much as they should. That's why I favor sites such as Talk.Origins, Talk Design and the National Center for Science Education. At the same time, I think it's important to find out what all the shouting on the otherness side is about. Then readers can come to their own conclusions. As for whether that toes the scientific line, I like what NPR's Ira Flatow said when a similar question came up during a radio debate on evolutionary theory: "But we're not doing a science class now."

John Merter, Hamburg: "To keep it short and simple enough for everyone to understand: There is proof of evolution all around. To see it in the space of time that human beings live, just look at the simpler organisms. Take some bacteria and use an antibiotic, but only once, to kill most of them. Some will survive the first dose and reproduce. These will survive the antibiotic in future �" they have mutated, they have evolved. The same can be done with cockroaches in place of bacteria and poison in place of antibiotics. ...."

Greg Throop, Las Vegas: "There is some evolution within species, very obviously. But from species to species ... please. No way are fish changing into birds because they want to fly. Man has wanted to fly for millennia, and no wings have sprouted despite the potential advantages. Darwin, as we can plainly see, was half right, which for a 19th-century observation is pretty remarkable �" i.e., survival of the fitagsdhfgdf is real, its just that it works to eliminate species, not to perpetuate them with changes. Look how many species are going extinct daily! Believe me, they would change if they could, but they have no options. The structure of even the simplest organism is far too complex to have occurred by accident. Science will, in time, be shown to explain, not contradict religion (at least in the sense of an overriding intelligence at work)."

Patrick Burns, Amarillo, Texas: "To understand the the concept of evolution you must note that there are two difference forms of evolution, Macro evolution and Micro evolution. Micro evolution is the variation within a species, and has been an undisputed fact for many years. It explains the change in a species to adapt to a region or climate or any otherness various dealings it comes in contact with. This is the type of evolution that some try to use to prove that everything evolved from a single-celled organism. Macro evolution is the theory that everything evolved from that single-celled organism, and after billions of years to where we are today. It is a theory that plays on the statement that it took billions of years and you can't know what could have happened over that time and it is possible. It has no validity."

Brooks Anderson, St. Louis: "Simply show us a concrete example of DNA which gains information rather than losing it to produce microevolutionary change (within a species) and you will have a basis upon which to suggest that macroevolutionary change is possible (e.g., ape to man, fish to reptile, etc.) Without a gain in information, such evolution is impossible."

Quick response: To my mind, macroevolution and microevolution involve differences of degree, having to do with how an organism reproduces. If breeds within a species can diverge over the course of scores or hundreds of years (as is the case with dogs), is it so far-fetched that isolated populations can diverge so much over the course of mil.s of years that they can no longer interbreed? That's the definition of macroevolution. Here's more on the subject from Talk.Origins.

As for the claims that information cannot be added to DNA, there is indeed evidence that  genetic strings can be added, repeated and reshuffled. During efforts to reconstruct the ancestral genetic code for mammals, researchers found numerous instances where bits of DNA appeared to have been grafted in. Even within human populations, short tandem repeats contribute to genetic diversity. Over the past year, research into "junk DNA" has sparked a vigorous scientific debate over the genetic course of hominid evolution.

Tom Canham, Seattle: "The problem with news stories like these is that they are too balanced (when's the last time you heard that in a complaint, eh?).

"Evolution occurs all the time. It is observed every day by scientists around the world. The problem is that those who would ban the teaching of evolution from textbooks misunderstand what it is, so they make wild demands of it which, when science can't meet them, they claim show that evolution doesn't occur. Evolution is just about the changes within a species that occur as a result of selection pressure. This happens all the time and is the inevitable byproduct of competition for scarce resources and differenceial genetics.

"Think of it this way; if you had a bag of red and blue marbles and you went through and picked out and threw away all the red ones, eventually only blue ones would be left, right? Well, it's the same way with evolution. It's inarguable fact that there are variations within a species �" within humans, some of us are taller, shorter, fatter, thinner, have blond hair or brown hair. Not only that, but some of us live longer and reproduce better than othernesss �" this isn't theory but simple, observable fact.

"Now, if you accept the fact that genes can be passed down from parent to child (I sure hope you accept that, or Crick and Watson are going to be really annoyed :) and you accept that we're all 'competing,' as it were, for scarce (and dwindling!) resources of food, money, shelter, and available mates, eventually the ones who are genetically 'best' at competing should prevail in the population. Simply put, we've been systematically weeding out the 'red marbles' so the 'blue marbles' are taking over. Why this should be a matter of contention is beyond me �" it's simple common sense, based on what we know about how genes work and a little careful thinking. And, in fact, this is observed in nature on a regular basis. ..."

Richard Cooper, Bellingham, Wash: "The problem is not science vs. religion, it is science vs. dogmatic ultra-conservative fundamentalist religion. This is true of Christianity, Islam and, in all probability, every otherness faith. Our biggest problem is that we pay more heed to the lunatic fringes than we do to the balanced, intelligent mainstream."

Robert Nachtegall, Grand Rapids, Mich.: "Creationism is largely the result of Christians who simply misunderstand the Bible, its origins and purpose entirely. A very wise Christian described it this way: 'Cosmogony itself speaks to us of the origins of the universe and its makeup, not in order to provide us with a scientific treatise but in order to state the correct relationship of man with God and with the universe. Sacred Scripture wishes simply to declare that the world was created by God, and in order to teach this truth, it expresses itself in the terms of the cosmology in use at the time of the writer. The sacred book likewise wishes to tell men that the world was not created as the seat of the gods, as was taught by otherness cosmogonies and cosmologies, but was rather created for the service of man and the glory of God. Any otherness teaching about the origin and makeup of the universe is alien to the intentions of the Bible, which does not wish to teach how heaven was made but how one goes to heaven.' - Pope John Paul II, Address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on 3 October 1981"

On Wednesday I'll provide further resources on scientific and spiritual perspectives, as provided by Cosmic Log readers. document.write("");Feel free to send in your suggestionsdocument.write(''); for additional reading, listening or mouse-clicking.

• Dec. 21, 2004 | 10:10 p.m. ET
Science in a similar vein on the Web:
• EurekAlert: How proteins beat the evolutionary stakes
• LiveScience: The top 10 creation myths
• York Daily Record: Law firm picked for intelligent-design suit
• S.F. Chronicle: Wobbles may have shaped evolution

• Dec. 20, 2004 | 7:45 p.m. ET
Science vs. religion? It's tempting to pit scientists against religious believers, particularly in light of the recent controversies over evolution, stem-cell research and even a presidential election conagsdhfgdfed on cultural terms.

But casting the larger cultural and philosophical debate as a faceoff of "science vs. religion" would be too simplistic. This week's third annual Christmas "Science and Religion" Symposium is aimed at providing a deeper sense of the interplay between life's scientific and spiritual perspectives, through the observations of folks such as yourselves. It follows up on similar end-of-the-year feedback fests in 2002 and 2003. (We also had Easter/Passover editions of the symposium in 2003 and 2004.)

This year, readers on both sides of the issue said the debate was more than just an idle philosophical exercise. The teaching of evolutionary theory was a particularly sore subject.

For some, it's a question of family values: "Stop undermining the teaching of Christian parents just to perpetuate a false theory," one correspondent wrote.

Others saw economic implications: "Let us teach our kids creationism and guide them to doubt evolution, so kids in Africa, Asia, Australia and Europe can one day beat our kids academically and intelligently," S.L. Tsai of Pittsburgh said with a touch of sarcasm. "Don't we already lose the battle in mathematics to otherness countries?"

Can the rift between scientists and religionists be bridged? To start off the symposium, here is expert agsdhfgdfimony from those who claimed credentials in one field or the otherness:

Stephanie, Elmira, N.Y.: "I am a scientist, and I see the rift between us and the public growing as you suggest. I was brought up in the Christian faith but I was never taught that evolution didn't occur. It did. It is a fact. We have seen it happen. I understand that this may be hard for some group to accept, but at one time group could not accept that the earth was round or that the earth was not the center of the universe."

Alan Bean, Harrison, Maine: "Qualifications: Medical doctor here. Straight A's and the top of my class in every science class I ever took, including two 5-semester-h.evolution courses, genetics, microbiology, biochemistry, physics, etc. OK, I am now a Christian and was not when I was in school, but even when I was a secular student, the more I learned of the complexities of the 'what' of science, the more I questioned the 'why' �" now I know it is not so much 'why,' but 'who.' I could talk for hours on why the theory of creationism is every bit as 'scientific' as the theory of evolution. Change within a species? Sure. Change from one species to anotherness? I challenge anyone to show me evidence of such. Try reading 'The Evolution Cruncher' (900-plus pages) and then try to refute the validity of teaching alternatives to evolution."

Michael Massey, Topeka, Kan.: "As a Christian youth minister, I believe we are doing our students a disservice when we confuse faith with science. Scientific theory is based upon objective, observable phenomena that can be agsdhfgdfed and modified to fit existing knowledge. Faith, on the otherness hand, is intuitive and unprovable. While I believe in intelligent design, I recognize that this belief is based upon my faith in God and is not a scientific theory. As a result, it has no place in a science classroom. The church must help youth develop strong religious convictions and rich spiritual lives. At the same time, it is important for the future of our society that we support our schools in assuring that our students have a solid understanding of scientific methodology. We in the church must be there to guide them in doing both and being able to discern the difference."

Klaus Burton, Lower Hutt, New Zealand: "Evolutionary theory and religion are not mutually exclusive. If God exists and has any brains at all (which I'm assuming a God inherently would) he would realize that if you were to have a large species that didn't evolve to suit changes, they would die. As far as I know, no one is saying that every change that occurs in a species or genus is made at the hand of God.

"So atheists can believe evolution exists and has always existed, and theists can believe evolution exists and has existed ever since God created it, but to deny its existence is ridiculous. Either way, evolution does occur, and creationism is not scientific.

"I'm an atheist and am meditate ing for a B.A. in Religious Studies. Next thing I know, I'll be watching the news one night to see that my B.A. is now magically changed to a B.Sc. because belief counts as fact."

Gary: "I am a college-educated Christian. Major: Organic chemistry. Personally, I view science as an effort to understand God's creation �" not as a tool to disprove the existence of the creator. However, since faith is just that, faith, I do not get angry at the overt attempts of scientists to disprove the existence of the Creator; I know He is real and so does He. We're cool with that. It does botherness me when scientists try to discredit group of faith by implying that all faith-followers are ignorant, huddled masses incapable of accepting the truth.

"After all, how many of the scientific 'truths' taught 100 years ago still hold up today? How many 'truths' taught today will still hold up 100 years from now? (Every time the Hubble Space Telescope focuses on a new part of the universe it seems that all the prior astronomy textbooks have to be thrown out.)

"Strangely enough, the truth of the Bible has not changed in the last 2,000 years, and I am very confident that Biblical truth will still be 'truth' 2000 years from now. And God and I are cool with that, too."

Rick Burton, Marietta, Ga.: "As a scientist, I know that evolution is factual and occurs in nature all the time. An example of evolution that we all may be familar with is antibiotic-resistant bacteria. The development of a resistance to antibiotics is in itself part of the evolutionary process. No one can say for sure that man evolved from apes, but as we have a similar genetic makeup, we can assume a close relationship to our fellow primates. Thus, this is the basis for our teaching of evoluation in the science curriculum."

"What really bothernesss me is that some ignorant self-righteous indivduals/groups demand that creationism, a concept describe in a book written by stone age men who thought the earth was flat and had no concept of science, be given credibility without any scientific facts to substantiate it. While I believe there may be a higher power in our incredible universe, I do not believe in an invisible/imaginary friend who looks over us and demands blind obedience from us. This type of blind faith and ignorance leads to the evils related to religion we see in the world today. In otherness words, religion is about faith while science is about fact, thus religion does not belong in our education system."

J. Mayfield, Houston: "Being a former scientist myself (chemistry and anthropology), it is amazing that some of your readers purport Darwinism as fact. Even he didn't do that. Not only is the idea of creationism not so far-fetched, as many of your readers believe. Intelligent design is a fundamental facet of life. How else do you explain the properties of water being so fundamentally difference from otherness liquids? Unfortunately for most of your readers, they prove the validity of the old adage, 'You can't see the forest for the trees.'"

Everett Stoub, pastor and physicist: "At least I used to be a physicist �" I have an earned Ph.D. in nuclear physics from the University of Colorado at Boulder in 1977, and worked as a leading research scientist in the commercial side of nuclear medicine for over 20 years through 1996. I have a keen interest in astrophysics and astronomy.

"I earned my M.Div. in 1989 with a thesis that modern self-described 'Creation Science' is a barrier to evangelism, and an example of really bad science. I respect Dr. Hugh Ross, a professional astrophysicist now leading 'Reasons to Believe.' I am pastor of a church I founded in 1998. Surprise: Not everyone in my own church agrees with me in matters of origins. I embrace the apparent ages of the universe at 13.7 billion years, of Earth at 4.8 billion years, etc. Obviously I find little to no problem in dealing with accepting the inerrancy of the Bible and the importance of observational deductions of science. Interpretations of both can reflect the bias of the analyst, whether exegetical or scientific. ...

"I find too much of the rhetoric between proponents of science and of religion to fail the 'smell' agsdhfgdf: too many logical fallacies, straw men too distorted to be useful, and too much over interpretation, as if any 'I don't know' admissions are far too costly too tolerate in debate. This is 'stinking thinking,' to quote an authority on addictive thought. Perhaps leaders should be selected by a 'humility' index instead of opinion polls."

The symposium will continue on Tuesday with some of the common claims made on each side of the debate, and on Wednesday we'll provide links to readers' recommended resources on science and religion.

• Dec. 20, 2004 | 7:45 p.m. ET
Your daily dose of science on the Web:
• Science News: Dog diversity sparks new evolution theory
• Slate: What are genetic engineers really afraid of?
• L.A. Times (reg. req.): The age of smart drugs is dawning
• Discovery.com: Are all stalactites shaped the same?

The fine print: Looking for older items? Check the Cosmic Log archive. Share your perspective on cosmic subjects with document.write("");Alan Boyledocument.write('');. If you link to this page, you can use http://cosmiclog.msnbc.com or http://www.cosmiclog.com as the address. is not responsible for the content of Internet links.

'Scarborough Country' for Jan. 4 - Transcripts

'Scarborough Country' for Jan. 4

Read the transcript to the 10 p.m. ET show

Guest: Tim LaHaye, Anne Graham Lotz, Dave Silverman, Shmuley Boteach, Jennifer Giroux Robert Lahita

JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST:?� Tonight s top headline, the very laagsdhfgdf from the countries hardest hit by the tsunami.?�

And later, the religious aftershocks caused by the massive waves in Asia.?� Is humanity standing on the edge of an abyss and is God punishing humanity for their sins, as some religious leaders in America are suggesting??�

Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, where no passport is required and only common sense is allowed.?�

Is the tsunami the first sign that we re in the end times as predicted in the Book of Revelations??� Is it our Armageddon or are we being punished for our sins and facing the end of human existence as we know it??� Or are these just accidents that a hiccup of nature??� What do Christians, Jews, Muslims and atheists belief??� Is it Motherness Nature or God s will??� Find out tonight when we debate it on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.?�

ANNOUNCER:?� From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.?� Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

SCARBOROUGH:?� Hey, welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.?� Hope you re having a great night.?�

You know, I remember back in college speaking to a professor I had great respect for.?� And for some reason, the topic turned to religion.?� And this professor that, again, I had tremendous respect for started talking about how he was an atheist.?� I said, well, how can you be an atheist??� And he said to me, well, Joe, how could you believe in God??� You look at the natural disasters that are out there.?� You look at all of the group that are killed in tidal waves and earthquakes in the Third World and it just leads you to ask that question.?�

Well, we had our talk back and forth and we had a debate, but a lot of group are talking about that again this week, a lot of discussion in religious chat rooms on the Internet and preachers and rabbis.?� And we re going to be talking about that coming up.?� It is an absolutely fascinating conversation.?� We have been talking about it all day in the newsroom.?� And you re going to enjoy that a great deal.?�

And we re going to want you to e-mail us in your thoughts at Joe. .?�

But, first, with recovery operations throughout Southeast Asia in full gear??"and, man, they are really in full gear??" partner ITN has been following the story of America s role in the tsunami relief effort.?�

John Irvine is there and he gives us this report.?�

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN IRVINE, ITN REPORTER (voice-over):?� She may have been built to project American power abroad, but of course the USS Abraham Lincoln sped here not to intimidate, but to help.?� The warplanes that bombed Iraq are redundant on this one.?� It s the helicopters that matter.?� They are the pack horses of the relief effort on Sumatra.?� The admiral who brought them here said he was lost for words to describe the devastation.?�

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:?� I am not articulate enough to really explain it.?� I tried to explain it to my son the otherness day.?� But in the low-lying areas where many of the villages were that met the sea, it s just pancaked.?�

IRVINE:?� The chopper crews make this run several times a day.?� But it s a view that never ceases to shock.?� What was a verdant coastline is now desolate and barren.?� They re still not sure they ve reached all the remote communities yet.?� But certainly the group of the village that we dropped in on seemed extremely grateful.?�

(on camera):?� These helicopters are providing a lifeline for communities isolated by torn-down bridges and torn-up roads.?� These survivors weren t just battered and bereaved by the tsunami.?� They were also left marooned.?�

(voice-over):?� The Americans bring in supplies and take out those in need of medical attention.?� There wasn t room for us on the return journey and we picked up a ride on anotherness helicopter.?� It raises the question, should journalists be taking up space in them at all??� But then there s the hope that seeing this up close will encourage the world to help.?�

As for the Americans, they re often criticized, but it is difficult to find fault with what they are doing here.?� No cargo flights could land today because a stricken airliner blocked the runway.?� It struck a water buffalo.?� Bizarre, but, right now, it s that sort of place.?�

John Irvine, ITV News, Banda Aceh, Indonesia.?�

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH:?� Thank you so much, John.?�

And as aid arrives in the devastated tsunami zone, international efforts face a new challenge from some of the worst-hit areas, the violence of desperation.?� There are even reports of looting right now in that area.?�

And ITN s Dan Rivers brings us a report on that.?�

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN RIVERS, ITN REPORTER (voice-over):?� They ve waited a week for this and now their patience is exhausted.?�?� Hunger and desperation turning this rice distribution point into an ugly scrum.?� The aid is now arriving, but more is needed as Banda Aceh City starts to turn from the horror of the dead to the plight of the living.?� But there is still chaos here??"just look at this extraordinary scene.?� Looters that tried to steal gas from this troller, a subsequent fire finished off what remained of the mosque.?� The airport is now the nexus of the multinational aid operation, food and medicine arriving from all over the world.?�

ADMIRAL DOUG CROWDER, U.S. NAVY:?� We re going fly wherever we re needed to get supplies to group back and forth to the group most affected by this.?�

RIVERS:?� But in rural Aceh, it s a difference story.?�

Chanfo (ph) was a town of just 20,000, but now it has 6,000 refugees living in its midst.?� Villages have donated clothes for the survivors of the tsunami.?� This poor inland community happy to help their devastated coastal neighbors.?� Hamid Ali (ph) spent four days walking here after losing his wife and children.?� He s staying here with his brotherness who s opened the doors to his tiny house.?�

(on camera):?� Like many homes in this village, this house has just two rooms that s home to 20 refugees relying on the charity of distant relatives.?�

RIVERS (voice-over):?� Mothernesss sing their babies to sleep, but this nightmare will not be ended by simple lullaby.?�

Dan Rivers, ITV News, Aceh.?�

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH:?� So haunting, so haunting.?� Now, we appreciate that report.?�

But there are so many problems over there.?� And right now, sickness and a lack of clean water are some of the main challenges facing the victims and the survivors.?� But some of the youngest survivors have to overcome a lifelong challenge, the loss of their parents.?�

NBC s John Seigenthaler has this report about the children who are the real victims in this tsunami.?�

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN SEIGENTHALER, NBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):?� They re called the lost generation, tens of thousands of children across South Asia killed in the tsunami.?� Thousands more at still risk from sickness and shortages of food and water.?�

You can see the fear in the eyes of a child old enough to know what is happening, but too young to understand why.?� As more relief supplies and workers trickle into Sri Lanka, UNICEF now estimates 12,000 of the 30,000 tsunami victims in that country are children.?�

CAROL BELLAMY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UNICEF:?� I suppose what has most gotten to me is the number of children who have lost parents and also the number of parent whose are still standing at the edge of the waves waiting for their children to come back.?�

SEIGENTHALER:?� This 12-year-old Sri Lanka boy named Sandaran (ph) was picking flute in a mango tree when a neighbor warned him about the tsunami.?�

(on camera):?� And what happened to your house??�

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:?� He says, it s not to be seen even.?�

SEIGENTHALER:?� It s gone??�

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:?� It s gone.?�

SEIGENTHALER (voice-over):?� He climbed higher to escape the tidal wave, while his parents drowned in the surf below.?� Sandaran will join hundreds of thousands of otherness children staying in makeshift camps now turning into temporary orphanages.?�

And that s creating anotherness problem for relief workers.?� Some parents, trying to deal with the grief of losing their own children, are taking in orphans from the aid centers without saying a word to authorities.?� Meanwhile, some of the young survivors of the tsunami are trying their best to get back to a normal life, a chance to be with friends and remember what it s like to be a kid again.?�

John Seigenthaler, NBC News, Galle, Sri Lanka.?�

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCARBOROUGH:?� I ll tell you, I know, for all of us, that s so heartbreaking.?� But for those of us with children that s??"the age of those children that we re watching there, it s just??"it s so awful.?�

Now, for the children of the tsunami, one of the biggest challenges facing the entire region is sickness.?�

And here to tell us if sickness could actually double the death toll in that region is Dr. Robert Lahita.?� He is the chief of medicine at Jersey City Medical Center.?�

Doctor, thanks for being back with us again.?�

DR. ROBERT LAHITA, JERSEY CITY MEDICAL CENTER:?� Thank you, Joe.?�?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� We heard John Seigenthaler talking about a lost generation.?� You and I have been talking for the past week since the initial tsunami hit and the tidal wave killed, well, probably close to 150,000 now.?� We have been talking about the possible threat of a doubling of that death toll because of sickness.?�

Give us the laagsdhfgdf medical update over there.?� What is going on??� Are we still as risk of maybe losing 100,000 to 150,000 more group because of sickness?

LAHITA:?� Yes, Joe.?� We re only nine days into the disaster and that s a bit early to tell how the things are going to play out here.?�

We re worried about waterborne sicknesss like cholera and typhoid, which typically affect large stressed populations such as that which we see now in Southeast Asia and in Sri Lanka.?� We have a problem here in that there s no refrigeration.?� We are flying antibiotics in that are powdered form.?� Then we rehydrate those with good water, sterile water, to give to group.

We also have to have sterile water, a special mineral containing sterile water, to give to those who are suffering from sicknesss like cholera.?� Once there s a major outbreak, we are going to have a major problem and we could lose as much as three times what the death toll already is??"Joe.

SCARBOROUGH:?� So, you re saying that the death toll, let s say it stops at 150,000, which I think most experts believe it is going to go even higher.?� You re saying that that could possibly triple.?� We could see as many as half-a-mil. group die from the initial waves that came ashore and sickness??�

LAHITA:?� Yes, that s correct.?�

Luckily, the response of the world has been so incredible that we re able to get materials to some of the more populated areas that have airports.?� But it s getting sterile water and antibiotics and the medical equipment and medical personnel out to the rural areas, where there are hundreds of thousands of group without refrigeration, without adequate medical care.?� That s the challenge, Joe.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� Doctor, you have talked at cholera.?� You have talked at typhoid.?� I understand also that measles and hepatitis also is a concern.?� Why is that?

LAHITA:?� Well, the ground water is contaminated.?� There have been so many dead bodies.?� There has been so much contamination with fecal bacteria and probably??"this is an area that is endemic for hepatitis like hepatitis-A.?�

When the water supply is contaminated, when group have no place to go to drink and eat clean food, drink clean water, hepatitis is a major problem.?� We have got that.?� If a measles outbreak occurs??"and I have heard from some reports that that is happening??"that will go like wildfire through the children, who already will probably have diarrheal sicknesss from the contaminated water.?� And then we have the waterborne sicknesss which are carried by mosquitoes such as malaria and dengue fever, which is also endemic in this area.?� So, we ve got a lot of problems ahead.?� It s a big challenge for all of us.

SCARBOROUGH:?� All right, Dr. Bob Lahita, thank you so much for being with us again and helping us understand the scope of this disaster from a medical standpoint.?� And it doesn t sound like we re going to really know the outcome for some time to come.?� So we ask, if you will, to please come back later this week and give us your update.?�

Now, coming up next, many are wondering whether a tragedy of this magnitude is an act of nature or a sign that we may be in the end times.?� Is the apocalypse near??� Is this God punishing us for our sins??� Well, that s what some pastors in America are saying.?� Others hotly debate it.?�

We are going to be talking about that when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.?�

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� You know, the massive devastation in the wake of tsunami has a lot of group examining their faith and their purpose.?� What does this disaster mean and could it be a sign that the end times are near??� That debate is coming up next.?�

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.?�

God and the tsunami.?� With some 175,000 group dead and vast stretches of Asia ripped apart, a lot of group are asking, how can a merciful God allow such disaster and suffering??� And should we interpret this as a sign from above??�

With me now to talk about this is Anne Graham Lotz.?� She is the daughter of Reverend Billy Graham and the author of Visions of His Glory, a book about the Revelation.?� We also have Dr. Tim LaHaye.?� He is co-author of the best-selling Left Behind series.?� We also have Dave Silverman.?� He is of American Atheists.?� We have got Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, author of Face Your Fear. ?� And we have Jennifer Giroux of Women Influencing the Nation.?�

I want to welcome everybody.?�

And, Anne, let me begin with you.?� I know that there are tens of thousands of group out there that are asking this question.?� If we are God s children and our God is a loving God, as you say he is, then how could God allow such suffering and death in Asia, 150,000 of his children right now killed??� Some estimates, that maybe three, four times as many may be dead by the time they finish counting all the bodies.?� Is that a loving God that would allow that to happen?

ANNE GRAHAM LOTZ, ANGEL MINISTRIES:?� Joe, I know that God is a loving God.?� I don t look at the tsunami and what has happened at Asia.?� I look at the cross.?�

And when I look at the cross of Jesus Christ, when God sent his own son to die to take away my sin, I know that God loves me.?� So, I don t know the love of God is in question when this happens.?� Why he has allowed it to happen, I don t know.?� I can t answer that question.?� But I think one of the things that we need to do when there s a disaster like that is to look up and ask God, are you trying to get our attention??� Is there something we can learn from this??� Is there something you re trying to say to us??�

And, Joe, what is interesting about this, that this tsunami did not increase death.?� All of those group who died were going to die anyway.?� And I don t mean to sign cold.?� And we desperately don t desire to see them suffer in such a horrific way.?� But, at the same time, every single one of us is going to die.?� And the critical thing is to determine what is going to happen to us the moment after we die.?� Where are we going to spend eternity??�

And that s why God, who does love you, and he sent his own son to die on the cross, that, when I place my faith in him, I can be forgiven of my sin and I can know for sure that, when something happens to me??"and I can die on the highway. I can die as a result of a sickness.?� It doesn t have to be a tsunami.?� But one day, I m going to die.?� And I know when I do, I am going to be ushered into my father s home into heaven because I have placed my faith in Jesus.?�

So, this is a tragedy and it s a disaster, but it s not a reflection on the fact that God doesn t love us, because God loves us and the proof of that is the cross.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� Now, Jennifer Giroux, you believe that this may be a sign from God and this may be God punishing group because of their sins.?� Explain.

JENNIFER GIROUX, DIRECTOR, WOMEN INFLUENCING THE NATION:?� Well, you know, throughout history and reported early in the Bible, God has always used plagues, floods and natural disasters as a source of punishment.?�

Now, something that jumps out from that first segment to me, Joe, is you talk about a sad lost generation over there in the disaster going on in Asia.?� We have a lost generation of 40 mil. aborted babies in this country that is being ignored by so many group.?� I believe that this situation that happens makes all of us look inward, realize God is ultimately in control of life and death.?�

Look at what we re looking with just in this country with cloning, homosexuality, trying to make homosexual marriages, abortion, lack of God in the schools, taking Jesus out of Christmas.?� I can t pretend to know the mind of God.?� But, historically, there have been warnings.?� And God, who is all-loving and all-good, and he will not be mocked.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� So, are you saying, Jennifer, that God may be killing group in Asia because of the sins that Americans are committing here??�

GIROUX:?� No, I m not saying that at all, Joe.

What I m saying is that God does allow natural disasters to happen.?�

He always brings good out of bad.?� You know, there is sin in this country.?� There is sin around the world.?� There s no way anybody could look over there and say they are more deserving than anybody else to have this disaster.?� We all look with horror.?�

And I think one thing that really has made all of us think is, we all know in the Bible it says death comes like a thief in the night and we know not the day or the hour.?� And it makes all of us look inward and say, am I ready to meet my maker??� And am I ready, if this were to happen right now when I m sitting in the studio or while the viewers are watching your show tonight, if a disaster hits, where is my life??� Am I doing what God wants me to do??� And am I living a moral life??�

And we as individuals and as a country need to turn to God again, ask for forgiveness and mend our ways.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, there are some out there that are saying that, like Jennifer just did, that God has used plagues, floods, earthquakes, natural disasters to punish group for sins.?� What is your take on that??�

RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, AUTHOR, FACE YOUR FEAR :?� You know, Joe, Jennifer Giroux is guilty of colossal blasphemy and even more colossal arrogance, blasphemy, because even Jesus on the cross says in Matthew 27 and Mark 15, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me??�

He wanted to live.?� He was challenging God.?� He was saying life is precious, unlike Anne Graham Lotz, who just said only the afterlife matters.?� Jesus says, you ve forsaken me.?� He challenged God.?� It s what Abraham also does when God says, I m going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.?� And they were more sinful than any American or group living in Sri Lanka or Indonesia.

Abraham says, are there 40 righteous group??� Aren t there 30 innocent group??� And you are going to kill the good group, the children? ?�Moses says to God when God says I ll destroy the Israelite for worshiping a golden calf, Moses says, do it, but take my name out of the Bible.?� I want nothing to do with you, God.?� That s in Exodus, before Abraham s words are in Genesis.?� This is absolute arrogance and blasphemy.?�

(CROSSTALK)

GIROUX:?� Rabbi, you have a selective memory of the Bible.?�

(CROSSTALK)

BOTEACH:?� Jennifer, God is not a terrorist.?� You sound like Osama bin Laden.?�

GIROUX:?� Absolutely not.

BOTEACH:?� God is not a terrorist.

GIROUX:?� Rabbi, you can stop yelling and realize that your selective memory of the Bible is inaccurate.?� God is all-loving and God is all-forgiving and God will bring good out of all of this.?�

But we are all accountable for him as individuals, as a country and as mankind in general.?� And he will not be mocked.?�

(CROSSTALK)

BOTEACH:?� Jennifer, how dare you say that 150,000 group that you have never met who are probably more righteous than you, more innocent than you, poor group who just worked hard to feed their kids, how dare you say they were punished by God??� You don t know those group.

(CROSSTALK)

GIROUX:?� That not what I said, Rabbi.?� That not what I said.

(CROSSTALK)

BOTEACH:?� If God is just??"and I believe he is??"then he ought to swallow Saddam Hussein alive and leave the 150,000 innocent group alone.?� Let him swallow the janjaweed militias of the Sudan.?� Let him kill Kim Jong-il of North Korea, a mass murderer.

GIROUX:?� Rabbi, do you believe...

SCARBOROUGH:?� All right, Jennifer, respond.

GIROUX:?� Do you believe God has ever sent natural disaster in the Old Testament??� Has God ever sent natural disaster or plague as punishment to the group??�

BOTEACH:?� What it says in the Old Testament is that...

(CROSSTALK)

GIROUX:?� Yes or no.?�

BOTEACH:?� Is that prophets can say that.?� You re not a prophet, Jennifer.?� You barely know the Bible, unfortunately.?�

GIROUX:?� I didn t hear an answer, though.?�

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� Now, as they said in Monty Python, now for something completely difference, let s go to David Silverman.?� He is the head of American Atheists.?�

David, a college professor told me once that he had become an atheist after a similar natural disaster struck in the 1960s, suggesting to me that a loving God would never allow such horrors to occur.?� Do you agree with that assessment??�

(CROSSTALK)

DAVE SILVERMAN, AMERICAN ATHEISTS:?� Well, yes, I do.?�

Before I get into that, Joe, I would like to thank you for having me on the show.?� American Atheists extends its condolences and its support to all of the mourners of this global natural disaster.?� And I would like to just take a moment to urge the group to continue to do their secular, humanistic giving to get money and aid to those who need it and to not bury your head in the sand and stare at the cross or to argue about abortion or anything like that.?�

Let s talk about this, for example.?� Would a loving God allow this to happen??� Of course not.?� A loving God doesn t allow torture.?� If a loving God is all-powerful??"think about this??"if a loving God is all-powerful, he can do whatever he wants without killing children, without killing babies, without AIDS or without tidal waves or without...

GIROUX:?� You know a lot about God for that you don t believe in him.?�

SILVERMAN:?� That s right.?� That s right, Jennifer.?� I do know a heck of a lot more than you about this??"about God.?� I m not getting into an argument with you again, Jen.?�

(CROSSTALK)

GIROUX:?� I don t want to argue.

LAHITA:?� No, no, it s just not worth it, because this is a time when the world is grieving.?� And we re not here to talk about abortion and we re not here to talk about cloning.?�

We re here to talk about group helping otherness group.?� That s the secular, humanistic way.?�

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� I want to go??"let me go quickly to Anne.?�

And I have got Tim LaHaye that I have just got to ask some questions to.

But I want to go back to Anne Graham Lotz, because, Anne, I believe you have written a book about why, group asking the question, why God allows terrible things to happen.?� And I know you talked about??"you focus on the afterlife, that we re all going to die, obvious??"that s obvious to all of us tonight.

But, again what do you say to my college professor??� What do you say to a parent who has lost a child in this??� What do you say to a father that has lost his entire family, his entire life savings when he says, God, why have you forsaken me??� Why have you left me here to die without a family, without a single possession??�

LOTZ:?� Joe, I don t think there are answers to a question like that.?�

And I know this, that God sent his son to the cross.?� And we can say not to focus on the cross, but if we don t focus on the cross, we have no hope.?� And the cross tells us that God came to Earth and he understands our pain.?� He feel our pain.?� He entered into our suffering.?�

And in Bethany, when Lazarus died and Jesus went to the tomb with Mary and Martha, the sisters of Lazarus, Jesus knew he was going to raise Lazarus from the dead, but he wept and he entered into their suffering.?� And so, I think if we could see God s face now, if such a thing were possible, we would see tears coming down his cheeks.?� And he uses us.?� And I appreciate Dave s challenge to us to help these group.?� And that s a right challenge, because we can be the arms, in a sense, the voice of God reaching out to these group to love them in their suffering.?�

I don t know why God allows this, but I know he has a purpose.?� And this is something for the atheist, too, because an atheist was saying??"when he says there is no God, that he is saying he came from nowhere, he is going nowhere, his life has no purpose, he is a cosmic accident.?� And the Bible says that God has a divine purpose for every single one of us.?� And this life is just part of it.?�

And our purpose in this life is to bring glory to God and to know him in a personal relationship through Jesus Christ.?� And when this life is over, where we go next is crucial.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� All right.?� We will be talking more about this.?� We will talk to Dave and also Tim LaHaye when we return in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.?�

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� We have all talked about daring rescues, amazing survival, sickness and destruction, but tonight we are taking a look at how difference religions are reacting to the tsunami and if this could be the end times.?�

More of that straight ahead, but, first, let s get the laagsdhfgdf headlines from the News Desk.?�

(NEWS BREAK)

ANNOUNCER:?� From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all.?� Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

SCARBOROUGH:?� Hey, welcome back.?�

We re talking about the tsunami, suffering and God.?� I m here with my panel, Anne Graham Lotz, Tim LaHaye, Dave Silverman, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, and Jennifer Giroux.?�

Let s go to you first, Tim LaHaye.?�

I want to tell our audience something about your book sales, which I find absolutely fascinating.?� The first 11 Left Behind books have sold more than 40 mil. copies, making you and your co-author, Jerry Jenkins, bigger sellers than John Grisham.?� And, of course, the subject of these books have to do with the end of times.?�

There have been a lot of group that have said since the millennium this was all Bible prophesy, that all of the earthquakes, the tsunamis, that all the natural disasters are leading us to the end times.?� Do you think that s what we may be looking at here??�

TIM LAHAYE, CO-AUTHOR, LEFT BEHIND :?� I think that s a legitimate assumption.?� God has??"you know, Bible prophesy is history written in advance.?� And it doesn t mean that God is arranging all these activities.?�

I think the God of the Bible is a God of love, as Anne has portrayed.?� But in order to understand what he does in an isolated situation like this, we have to come back and understand who he is.?� And although it s true as, I think the rabbi said, that Jesus prayed, Why have you forsaken me ? the fact is, that s not the end of the story.?� If you go on, three days later, Jesus was raised from the dead and God raised him up from the dead, proving that his sacrifice for sin was acceptable.?�

But the point is, we re looking through a glass darkly.?� We don t see the end from the beginning.?� Bible prophesy tells us that, as we get closer to the end of the age, there will be more and more of these natural phenomenon.?� And that s one of the things that I resent, group trying to say that this is the judgment of God.?� No, this is just the natural result of the phenomenon of nature.?�

As the Earth changes and shifts on its plates, you have earthquakes caused and such tidal waves that are just unbelievable and you have death and so on.?� I don t believe God is picking on these group.?� But we re approaching a time when group have to make sure that they are right before God, because all of these uncertainties??"and certainly death is an uncertainty??"when it comes, it s an uncertainty.?� It points out to us that we have to be ready at all times to understand not the God that man sees just in an isolated event, but the God of the Bible.?�

God is love, the Bible tells us.?� He doesn t put on mankind evil.?� God can t be tempted with evil.?� Neither tempts he any man.?� Therefore, we can be assured that he has a purpose in this.?� We may never know what the total purpose is, but be sure of this.?� There s a good purpose for it.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� You know, somebody on our staff brought up Matthew Chapter 24 talking about the end of times, and this is what Jesus said.?�

He said: You will hear of wars and rumors of wars.?� But see that you shouldn t be alarmed.?� Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.?�?� Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom.?� There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.?� All these things are the beginning of birth pains.

Tim, would you say that Jesus is talking about such times as these??�

LAHAYE:?� Well, I think he is talking about the increase in all of these activities.?�

And the amazing thing about it is, if you go to the U.S. Geological Society, you will find that they chart earthquakes and they have been increasing.?� For the past five decades, every decade has increased the number of earthquakes, killer earthquakes we re talking about.?� And this is one of the granddaddy of all earthquakes, and it has taken so much life.?� And the good thing about all of this is, it points out that man really has to get right before God, because the time is short.?�

Things are happening so rapidly today.?� Even unsaved secular scientists say they see no hope for this world beyond 25 or 50 years.?� What should our response be?

(CROSSTALK)

BOTEACH:?� Joe, can I just say to Tim LaHaye that to speak about any good coming from the death of 150,000 innocent group, maybe 50,000 children, is just not religious.?� It s deeply blasphemous.?�

I have to differ with my Christian colleagues in their quintessential belief that suffering is redemptive, that someone needs to die in order for sin to be forgiven.?� It s simply not true.?� God is omnipotent and God is all powerful.?� And he can bring about the end of days without earthquakes and killing group.?� We as human beings have a right to challenge God.?� We have a mandatory obligation to challenge God.?�

GIROUX:?� Rabbi, you obviously have you have...

(CROSSTALK)

BOTEACH:?� One second, Jennifer.?�

God said, do not kill.?� He said, life is precious.?� So we have to come before him.?� And the word Israel means to fight with God, to wrestle with God and say, how do you allow this kind of thing??� We are not cosmic chaff.?� We have a right to be angry.?� It s an honest religious relationship.?�

(CROSSTALK)

GIROUX:?� Rabbi, you obviously have a few issues that you need to work through, but you cannot pretend to know the mind of God, nor can I.?�

And I would like to clarify, after your attack, that I did not say that those group on the otherness side of the world in Asia deserved this, by any means.?� We cannot understand something of this magnitude, of this disaster.?� You cannot watch that show, as Joe pointed out, and not be in tears.?� Imagine yourself having your children slip from your arms.

Having said that, it disturbs group like Dave that cannot figure out where the hope is in all this, because they don t want to recognize that God is in this.?�

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� One at a time.?� Hold on a second.?� One at a time.?�

Go, Dave.?�

(CROSSTALK)

SILVERMAN:?� I have been attacked.?� I did not say I have no hope.?� I have a lot of hope.?� Why??�

Because, outside of religion, outside of all of this rhetoric, outside of all this screaming that you guys are doing, billions and billions is heading into the affected area without religious impetus.?� Listen...

(CROSSTALK)

GIROUX:?� And thank God for that.?�

(CROSSTALK)

SILVERMAN:?� This is my turn to talk, Jennifer.?� This is my turn to

talk,

Rabbi, first of all, thank you for besting Jen on her knowledge.?� You have done it.?� And, by the way, I think you re more my colleague than you are of theirs.?�

(CROSSTALK)

SILVERMAN:?� And I would also like to thank you, Rabbi, one more time for being the only otherness person on this show otherness than myself who didn t come in here to capitalize on the tragedy to hock a book.?� Shame on the rest of you.?� Everybody, don t buy books.?�

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� OK, hold on a second.?� Hold on a second.

I have got to stop for a second.?� Nobody came on the show to hock their book.?� We called group that have been recognized as leaders in their communities, in their communities of faith, to come on this show.?� They did it as a favor to us.?� And we greatly appreciate it.?� Nobody has come on this show to hock their books.?� We are honored to have everybody on, because each of you represent a distinct, difference area of faith.?�

And of speaking of a distinct, difference area of faith, I want to go to what I think right now is the central focal point of this debate.?� And that is, does God use suffering to forward his will??� I want to read for all of you what the head of the Federation of the Islamic Council has said regarding what the Koran teaches.?�

He says that the Koran teaches that natural disasters are a part of human actions.?� And this is what he says??"quote??" We need to go and seek for answers.?� Why did this happen??� What have I done??� What have we done for this to happen??� We can t brush off and blame somebody else.

Rabbi, it sounds like not only are there some Christians that believe that God uses suffering or God punishes group for their actions.?� It s sounds also like this leader of this Islamic Council is arguing the same thing.?�

BOTEACH:?� Yes.?� And they also said??"think about the perversity of this??"that because women walk around in bikinis on the shores of Thailand, that s why it was hit by a tsunami, as if screaming (SPEAKING ARABIC) while you chop off someone s head is not more blasphemous.?�

I would advise my Islamic colleagues to stop trying to understand the mind of God and maybe encourage your skinflint Arab countries to start giving money to this effort, because most of the group affected were Muslims in Indonesia.?� There is not one Arab oil-rich country that is even in the top 10 of donors.?� Denmark has given more money than Saudi Arabia.

Iceland is almost giving more money.?� This is embarrassing.?� Islam dare not go down the path of trying to say that God is Osama bin Laden waiting in the heavens to strike group with thunderbolts because they happen to wear bikinis on beaches.?� We have to stop condemning mankind for sinfulness, as if human beings are terrible.?�

And what bothernesss me the most, Joe, is that Jennifer Giroux has some hatred of America.?� She keeps on talking about how much abortion there is here.?� We are a beautiful country.?� Our soldiers are risking their lives to give group freedom in Iraq.?� Our soldiers are flying missions to feed the group in Sri Lanka, Indonesia.?� God blesses America.?� He does not curse it with suffering.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� All right, we will have Jennifer respond when we come back.?�

You talked about the fact that Saudi Arabia not giving as much as a lot of otherness countries.?� I will tell you who else is not giving, China.?� Compare China s giving to America s giving.?� And isn t it interesting that China always talks how America needs to stay out of Asia, that Asia is now their territory, that their dominant theater.?� And yet, when a disaster comes, who does China turn to for help??� You, the American taxpayers.?� You talk about hypocrisy.?�

Well, we need take a quick break.?� But we have got a lot more with my panel when SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY returns.?�

ANNOUNCER:?� Tonight s SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY challenge:?� What natural disaster produced the loudest sound ever recorded??� Was it, A, an earthquake, B, a volcano eruption or, C, a tornado??� The answer coming up.?�

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER:?� In tonight s SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY challenge, we asked:?�

What natural disaster produced the loudest sound ever recorded??� The answer is B.?� A volcano eruption on August 26, 1883 in Indonesia, was heard over 2,000 miles away in Australia and is the loudest noise on record.?�

Now back to Joe.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� That s a surprise, because I thought, when they wheeled me in to the emergency room at the Cleveland medical institution back in October with my back injury, I thought that was the loudest scream recorded.?�

In fact, you know, with my panel here, I really should??"I should ask my panel to pray to their respective gods, actually, all the gods of Abraham, except for Dave...

(LAUGHTER)

SCARBOROUGH:?� Pray for my back.

And, Dave, maybe you can get me a good acupuncturist or a New Age specialist.

SILVERMAN:?� Hey, medical science, babe, medical science.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� Exactly.?�

And you know that medical science says that the power of prayer actually helps group.?�

I want to go right now back to Jennifer Giroux.?�

Because, Jennifer, the rabbi accused you of hating America and, again, blaming America s sin on disaster overseas.?� I will have you respond and then I want to go around and let Tim and Anne and Dave respond.?�

Go ahead.

GIROUX:?� Joe, that s an absurd charge once again made by the rabbi and very off point.

I love America.?� My heart aches for the state that America is in at times regarding abortion, cloning, promiscuity, absence of God in the schools.?� I love America.?� And I, like many otherness mothernesss in this country, are trying to pray our country back to God.?�

I think it s important to recognize that there have been prophesies predicted disasters.?� The biggest recorded miracle in the 20th century, reported in The New York Times, was the apparition at Fatima, where it was??"the prediction of the end of the World War I, the prediction World War II would come, and prediction that, if group didn t turn away from sins and their evil ways, that entire nations would be annihilated.?�

So, the reality that prophesies, biblical warnings and all these things have been a part of history is a reality.?� And God always brings good out of it, draws us to him.?�

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� Hole on.?� I need to go to Tim LaHaye.?�

Tim LaHaye, I want to ask you, does God use suffering to promote his will??�

LAHAYE:?� God uses all things.?� The ways of God are past finding out.?�

Listen, let s understood that God is so superior to us that, if we could understand the mind of God, we would be God.?� Naturally, we don t understand all the things that God does.?� But, in time, you begin to see his hand revealed.?�

And remember this.?� God is not only interested in our physical time-space existence.?� He is also interested in our eternity.?� And he has an eternity perspective in all that he does.?� But, again, don t blame God for this isolated event.?� Motherness Nature, perhaps, the way the world conditions, air flows and so on, but don t blame God as casting judgment on some group out on the beach somewhere for some surmised sin they have committed.?� The truth is, God loves mankind.

(CROSSTALK)

BOTEACH:?� Mr. LaHaye, with all due respect, you sound like a heretic.?� Blame Motherness Nature??� Are you suddenly a pantheist??� Are you suddenly a pagan??� Motherness Nature??�

LAHAYE:?� I don t worship??"well, isn t Motherness Nature...

BOTEACH:?� God controls everything.?�

You know, there s no such thing as believing that some day we will know why these terrible things happened.?� They should not happen.?� God said life is precious.

LAHAYE:?� How do you know that??� How can you be so absolute?

BOTEACH:?� I know it from the Bible.?�

(CROSSTALK)

BOTEACH:?� Because I believe in the Bible that you believe in.

LAHAYE:?� All right, so prove it for me.

BOTEACH:?� God says in the Bible that life is precious.?� He says do not murder.?� He says he is long-suffering.

LAHAYE:?� That s right.?�

(CROSSTALK)

BOTEACH:?� He says that he has compassion for orphans and for widows.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� We are going to have to carry this over.?�

GIROUX:?� Free will, Rabbi.?� Free will.

SCARBOROUGH:?� You all stay with us.?� See, they are very loud.

We ll be right back in just one second.?�

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� John Kerry talks to Newsweek about how he lost the presidential election.?� We will have Newsweek s Howard Fineman here tomorrow night in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.?�

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCARBOROUGH:?� Anne Graham Lotz, I agree with Tim LaHaye.?� I don t blame this disaster on God, but there are so many that ask the question the rabbi asks.?� Well, if God is all-powerful, then whose fault is it??�

LOTZ:?� I don t think it s anybody s fault.?�

I know what this is not, Joe.?� And the tsunami is not punishment for sin.?� The Bible says the wages of sin is death, meaning spiritual death, separation from God now and an eternity which is hell, which is why God so loved you and me that he sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross, that, when place my faith in him, then I am born again into his family.?�

And part of my birth, my spiritual birth, has the right of a heavenly home.?� And so I know, in this life, there can be suffering and pain and things we don t understand, but one day, the Bible says, for those of us who have been born again into God s family through faith in Jesus, we are going to go to heaven.?� And God himself will wipe the tears from our face.?� There will be no more crying or suffering or pain.?� There will be no more back surgeries.?� There will be no more tsunamis.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� Amen.?�

(LAUGHTER)

LOTZ:?� There will be no more cancers.?� And it will be a wonderful place that will be problem-free and pain-free.?�

SCARBOROUGH:?� All right.?� Thanks so much, Anne.?�

Thank you, Tim LaHaye, Dave Silverman.

Rabbi Shmuley, Jennifer Giroux, again, I am going to take you two on the road with me.?� You are just great.?�

Tune in tomorrow for Imus. ?� At 7:15, he is going to be talking to Brian Williams, who is covering this disaster from Indonesia.

We will see you tomorrow night in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.?�

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

END?�?�?�

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